THE COLLECTOR:
A Conversation With E.B. Long

People who collect Turkoman rugs are irreverently referred to by other rug collectors as Turkomaniacs. Essentially a phenomenom which emerged in the ‘50s, Turkoman rug collecting was at the core of tribal rug interest. But it did not spring forth with some new undiscovered group of rugs. Turkomaniacs had been around since the turn of the century. Bogulubov (1908), Hartley Clark (1922) and A.B. Thacher (1940) had all published books on them before World War II. During an era when most books were general in nature or about classical rugs they represented a unique place in the literature. Thus not only were several of the early and significant rug books written by Turkomaniacs, but Turkoman rugs were prominant in notable collections, e.g. McCoy Jones and Joseph McMullan.

Ned, who is 60, was educated as a scientist and has a Ph. D. In biology. Employed in industry most of his life, he is presently self-employed as an environmental (pure water) consultant.

He dates his interests in oriental rugs to March, 1972 when he inherited three rugs from an aunt -- a roomsize 1930s Kirman, a Sarouk, and a Hamadan. With these three rugs, he and his wife Joan decided to buy an additional rug for their dining room and began a round of visits to local rug dealers, mostly department stores and small dealers. Within a few weeks they settled on a 1930s "American", ivory ground Sarouk and a new 3x5 Mir Sarouk.

In the course of the search one dealer had showed them a small Tekke rug, circa 1900. Ned was struck by how different it was from the other rugs in color, pattern, and wool quality. That is when he began to look for old rugs. At that time there were no dealers in his area who sold just old or tribal rugs. The dealers were selling floor coverings to people who, like the Longs, were looking for floor covering.

He expanded the area of his search to other cities. In one of these a dealer showed him his best Turkoman, a Yomud ensi. In the Spring of 1973, the Longs made a trip to 245 Fifth Avenue (the old wholesale rug trade building) to get a broader view of rugs. By July of 1973, he had bought the Yomud ensi and a small 4'x4' Tekke rug, which he called a bride's rug -- A designation he subsequently learned from Mugul Andrews. The ensi was not bought for the floor but to hang. The purchase marked the start of his Turkoman collection, and the end of the purchase of oriental rugs for floor covering.

Early reading included Hawley, Mumford, Kendrick and Tattersall and, of course, Jacobsen. He also read Vambery, O'Donavan, Lansdall, and Schuyler for Turkoman history. In 1975, he met Fred Harvey, who had a small collection of Turkoman rugs and with whom he wrote an article (HALI IV, 1) Harvey also introduced him to Ernie and Marsha Roberts.

Saryq juval, early 19th century

In June, 1984 Mr. Long published an anonymous article in Oriental Rug Review's "Collectors" column in which he discussed his reasons for collecting Turkoman rugs. The following are excerpts from that article.

"Some of the reasons for the appeal of Turkoman weavings would be boldness of design and coloration, nomadic or village production, and the aspect of unknown symbolism and origin...

"The Turkoman treatment of this essentially universal set of motifs is characteristic and unmistakable. Most surprising, the range of variations within this unique set allows us to identify (but not yet name or date with assurance) weaving groups also having distinctive characteristics.

"Extensive variation of color and decoration within what appears to be a strictly defined design format enhances artistic variation within defined limits is, of course, fundemental to much art. In music, early renaissance, sonato, and serial forms come to mind...Court art in the Middle East and Central Asia abounds in variations within formal limits...it is important that one remember these factors when viewing any oriental weavings in a class of their own...only the Baluch approach them in tactile appeal.

Tekke juval, circa third quarter, 19th century

We asked Ned what in his background might have influenced his interest in collecting in general and Turkomans in particular?

Long: I was not raised with oriental rugs nor did I collect things like stamps or coins as a child. In my field of science, one must have a background in taxonomy, classification, sorting things out. Some of these techniques I have tried to apply to oriental rugs. This knowledge of how to organize things enabled me to do something with a collection. Early on I noticed similarities and differences in the Turkoman rugs and began to look for patterns of organization.

ORR: Why do you collect what you collect and why is the focus on Turkoman rugs?

Long: Partly for a very practical reason. I'm not wealthy and prices were already on the way up when I started collecting. It was obvious I could have two or three really fine rugs or a whole bunch of less than perfect pieces. I consciously made the decision to have a collection I could continue to add to. I also didn't want a lot of value in only a few things.

Why Turkomans? It was partly due to what one could see or find. There were no old Turkish rugs in my area. Any good Caucasians moved right out to New York. But Turkomans did turn up now and again.

ORR: how would you describe your collection?

Long: It is a study collection. It has real meaning only to me. Every Turkoman tribe is not represented. I sense that juvals and torbas, the core of my collection, were made for personal use and not for the market. They may be the best representation of Turkoman skill and design. I've not attempted to be comprehensive. I don't feel the need to have one of everything. It interests me more to have two pieces superficially the same but in which elements reflect different approachs taken by two different weavers.

ORR: I think you are too modest about the importance of your collection. It's rare to find such a focus and with a sufficient number of pieces to see the true variety which exists in Turkoman weaving. Have your tastes changed over time and have there been significant outside influences?

Long: I remember one episode concerning fine weaves. I never attached great importance to fineness of weave. I know Jacobsen did. I've met others who did and for a time I fell under that spell because I listened to people who were more experienced and knowledgeable than I. At their insistence I bought a couple of what at that time were called Salor rugs. We now call them Tekke/Salor. They are late, commercial and have little ethnographic content. I bought these against my better judgment and soon regretted it. This taught me to follow my own instincts. I sold them a few years later.

At about the same time I went to New York to Abajian's. He showed me the same type of Salor stuff. But over in a corner was a dirty little Turkoman bag, all black and stuffed with horsehair. It looked genuine to me in contrast to the Salor stuff and I bought it. It's hanging on the wall in the living room now. It's a real piece and I still like it. It's hard to go against the masses, but I did.

1978 was an influential year for me. I attended the "Yörük" Symposium in Pittsburgh that spring. It was my first introduction to a group of collectors and the wide range of tribal rugs. I also remember it as one of the best rug conferences I've attended.

In the Fall there was a good exhibition of oriental rugs at Oberlin College, and later that year the Straka Collection Conference at The Textile Museum. Though the collection was of uneven quality, it was influential.

Finally and perhaps the most significant event was a visit to The Textile Museum in 1979, when Joan had a meeting in D.C. Ernie and Marcia Roberts had arranged with Louise Mackie for me to see the TM's Turkoman rugs. I spent 2 1/2 days there, from 9:00 to 5:00. I didn't even go to lunch. I looked at everything. I made lots of notes. I put like pieces side by side and studied why one was better than another. It was a revelation for me. One can't do that any more, I hear; the rules have changed.

ORR: Would you care to comment on your interest in Tekke six gul rosette/arrow torbas?

Long: Funny you should ask. This probably fits into the bad influence category of events in a learning curve. I subscribed to HALI from the beginning. The first issue had an article by Robert Pinner describing a pair of rare Turkoman torbas which had sold at Phillips in London. I read this with interest, even though I knew at the time where another of these "rare" pieces was. I ascribed much more importance to this article than I should have. I had not seen any of this type at auction and Pinner's comments seemed to confirm my own observations. I talked with Michael Grogan, then at Sotheby's -- he was very helpful -- and he told me he had only had one at their auctions. A few months later Sotheby's had another. I was there and thought to myself, "Does anyone else recognize the value of this piece?" I bought it against a lot of competition. I think I set a new market high for these torbas. After this they started coming out of the attics and the prices fell.

ORR: Are you interested in sharing what you have observed and learned about oriental rugs.

Long: If I have nothing to say, no, I'm not interested in sharing. There are people who have to share even if it is ignorance. My studies in Turkoman weavings have raised certain questions. I've tried to answer them. My marker knot article (HALI III / 2) for example explained what the knots might mean. Was there a pattern to them? Yes, the number of knots between the markers was constant. What does the interval represent? My speculation was that it represented a specific regular period of weaving, perhaps a day. This was a new observation using simple technical processes. It hadn't been done before. This type of data I'm willing to share. I'm less enthusiastic about sharing, "Gee, here's how this juval grabs me."

ORR: I realize this can be a sensitive question as it tends to relate to one's mortality, but have you made any plans for the future disposition of your collection?

Long: No, I have made no specific plans. I've worked against entropy to get these things together. There is information here. I would hate to simply see it sent to Skinner's or Sotheby's and put on the auction block. I would like to see it go to a museum. If I were trying to set up such an arrangement, I would say, "O. K. you carn sell some pieces because they are not really necessary. The funds could by used to care for the collection or acquire more relevant pieces. But certain pieces could not be sold because they are key." I would want some displayed, and they should by available to interested people and scholars, just as I was able at one time to look at The Textile Museum collection.

ORR: Do you think museums are interested in such collections?

Long: I suspect not. During my juval survey (ORR IV/11, p. 442), I contacted several museums. Some were helpful, some were not. The Smith Museum in Springfield, Mass., was very cooperative. They had a juval I wanted to include. They sent me a slide and took photocopies of the back, as I had requested. But another museum, dear to many of us, was a real disappointment. They did not have a picture of the rug I wanted. They offered to have it photographed at my expense, which was correct, but could not do it for six months! They also refused to take a photocopy of the back because their conservator said it was too dangerous. That is technical nonsense.

I am left with the feeling that many museum curators and conservators would not want to be bothered with what they would regard as a collection of flawed pieces assembled by an amateur.

ORR: When you consider buying a rug, how do you rank condition, wool, dyes, utility, weave, price, etc.?

Long: If a piece has synthetic dyes, or what I think are synthetics, I most likely won't consider it. There are times when sticking to such standards is foolish. For example, I know of only two or three ak juvals which do not have synthetic dyes. So if I want one of these, I will have to settle for something with synthetic dyes unless I am willing to pay what 1 view as an outrageous price. Aesthetics are very important to me and related to this is whether the piece is like something I have but with an interesting variation.

On the other hand, condition rates very low. If a piece has holes and rips but it is an interesting pattern, I don't reject it out of hand. Fine weave is not something that I pay much attention to either. Whether the color combinations are balanced is more critical in my estimation.

Wool is important but with old Turkomans it is not something you have to worry about. The wools were good.

ORR: Does Joan share your interest in rugs?

Long: Joan likes rugs and has created what she calls her "self defense" collection of flatweaves, which started with Turkoman flatweaves. It is respectable in its own right. What she has bought is not always what I would have bought.

ORR: Do you have any thoughts for someone just starting to collect?

Long: Don't! Go to the conferences, symposiums, auctions and exhibitions. Just buy one rug you can take to all the "show and tells." That is the way to enjoy it all.

But, if you have already purchased several pieces and feel positively driven to collect some weaving group that really interests you, I suggest the following: read about the subject; see as many pieces as you can; talk to collectors with similar interests. Much of what you read and hear will be wrong or biased, but you need to test and accept or reject this input so you can form your own point of view. No one else, art critic or rug dealer, can assemble your collection for you. Take advice, but always purchase what you like, not just what someone else thinks you "must have." You will make mistakes, but your taste will improve. Keep the collection specialized. Become involved in the study of the tribal group, the village, the weaving or dyeing processes, artistic symbolism. Knowledge of any of these subjects will increase greatly your enjoyment of your collection.

Yomud juval, circa mid-19th century

When the interview was completed we went into the Longs' living room. On the walls were a few pieces. Except for a rare Yomud main carpet, the small pieces were on specially designed panels, where they could be easily changed. Ned changes them frequently to enjoy and contemplate the variety of his collection.

He had put out a stack of juvals and torbas. They were arranged in order of acquisition with a story of where and why each piece was purchased. If one wanted to campare one with a similar piece, it turned up a few minutes later.

The Long collection is unusual in its focus on such a specific type of Turkoman weaving. Many Turkoman collectors are more interested in collecting weavings of the various tribes or the different utilitarian trappings.

We selected the rugs to illustrate this interview, not Ned. We are sure he would have made a different selection. The comments accompanying the rugs include our reasons for selecting them as well as Ned's reasons for having bought them.

E. B. Long's Comments on Collecting

*I suspect most ensis were woven for trade as were the main carpets. For that reason I've been less interested in them than the more utilitarian bags.

*I've done all of my buying at auction, from antique shops and from tribal specialists, not from generalist dealers. It's not because I don't like them, it's just that they haven't had the kinds of things l'm looking for.

*I've never tried to be a dealer. That would kill it for me.

*Rugs as an investment? No...I look at them as money down the drain just like an expensive meal in arestaurant, except that with the rug you still have it the next day.

*I learned more about the structure and wool quality of rugs from washing and repairing them than from any book I've ever read.

*In Vienna when Azadi began to talk I thought, "No more names! Oh please, no more names!"

*When I was able to compete intelligently at auctions, I felt I had reached maturity as a knowledgeable rug collector. One learns when to compete and to what level. One reaches a point where the auction houses call to tell you what they have. You have then become a part of the market place.

Comments on E.B. Long's Rugs

Long: I bought this piece at Skinner's long after I considered my collection of Tekke torbas complete. It had beautiful wool and colors, so I thought, "Just a bid or two..." Louise Woodhead (Skinner's oriental rug specialist) claims my major competition was in the men's room and missed the offering.

ORR: The lobed gul of this Yomud juval is similar to a "dead gul" Jon Thompson shows in describing the stages of gul evolution, Türkmen, fig, 34, p. 63. It is the type of piece decribed as archaic.

Long: I was, and continue to be, struck by the unique palette as well as design of this piece. Structure, closure indicators and marker knots all say Yomud, but it certainly speaks a different language than its cousins.

ORR: This Beshire juval has a rare use of the Chinar gul on a juval. This good, strong green is found in early Beshire weavings. Note the atypical color use, e.g. zig-zag, not diagonal.

Long: I missed the chance to buy its mate some years ago and jumped at this juval when it surfaced four months later. This striking piece contains all the best traits of Beshire work..

ORR: Although a wreck, this Saryq juval is probably the oldest one we have seen. Especially notable is the space around the guls because of their 3x3 alignment and the shade of red which puts it in the earliest group of Saryq weavings.

Long: This piece had been in the market sometime before I purchased it. It's a beautiful and outstanding piece, obtained at a fair price. Why is condition so important to so many collectors?

Beshire juval, circa mid-19th century

Saryk Juval, circa beginning l9th c.

Tekke Torba, circa 4th quarter 19th c.

Yomud Juval, circa 3rd quarter l9lh c.

Beshire Juval, circa mid l9th c.